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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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rendelsham forest

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incident that doesn't involve aliens at

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all it was completely silent

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it comes right over our heads he saw a

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classic flying saucer really standing in

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the clearing he turned over to my father

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and held his hand and he looked in his

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welcome to podcast ufo with martin

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willis and michael lauc

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please remember to visit the website

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podcastufo.com

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check out the latest blogs and forums

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and while you're there

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don't forget to like our very active

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facebook page

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hello everyone and welcome to the show

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i'm martin willis your host

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michael oak will be joining us in just a

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second today

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is podcast number 67. it's with tom

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carey

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about his co-authored book inside the

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reel area 51

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which is about wright-patterson air

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force base uh interesting interview

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and uh for right now we're gonna check

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in with michael

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about the news how you doing michael

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great how are you doing this week

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well i'm doing just great what's up

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great well you know it's a it's kind of

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a slow news week but we do have a few

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stories to bring our listeners and i

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would just like to remind everybody

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that they can find more information

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about all of our stories through the

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links

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in our show notes at podcastufo.com

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oh i want to say something peggy is

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off on uh some type of road trip so

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she's the one who manages our facebook

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page

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and she does all that work uh it's

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always greatly appreciated

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so now i'm at the helm so it's not gonna

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be quite so good

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for the next four or five days but hey

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i'll do my best

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well maybe she'll check in from the road

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uh she said

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no she said she wouldn't

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okay fine peggy i like that i still love

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her anyway okay so what's going on

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okay first of all we have a

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controversial new claim of alien life

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a research balloon sent up to an

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altitude of 17 miles by british

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scientists returned with evidence of

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microscopic algae

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found at that height according to the

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research team behind the balloon

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this algae must have originated

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elsewhere because it is too heavy to

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have been lifted

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to such a height by anything except for

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a volcanic eruption

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and it has been years since a

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sufficiently forceful eruption has

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occurred

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other scientists are not convinced that

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the algae is from off planet though

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although it is an unexpected find at

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that altitude

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nothing else in the sample so far

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suggests that it is extraterrestrial

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the team is examining their findings

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further hoping to find support for their

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extraterrestrial theory

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well yeah i think i read about this like

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about a week and a half ago or something

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like that and

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there was some scientists claiming that

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it might have come in through

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the what's the the meteor shower in

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august every year

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because of the p per said how do you say

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it

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perseid yeah why did they have to make

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it such a tough name

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perseid it's all greek to me sir okay

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so anyway they're claiming that it might

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have come in that way i'm sounding like

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a skeptic

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but i think it's kind of a leap to say

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that it came in from elsewhere i don't

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know

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what do you think i think

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it is the kind of thing that might be

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evidence eventually

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but isn't at this point a conclusive

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nail in the coffin kind of proof of

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panspermia as they call the the theory

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that life here began

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out there uh i did see a show just

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what was our last night because we we

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taped this a little early

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on uh discovery science called the

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unexplained files and they were talking

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about a red rain

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that had been held yes okay and and

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that there was a researcher there who

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found

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red rain

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in what appeared to be uh the remains of

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a meteor strike and

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and he is arguing something very similar

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who knows maybe yeah maybe i wonder if

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greer is on this

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maybe he actually sent something up in a

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weather balloon

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you know some you just can't leave greer

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alone can't i'm sorry

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no i can't leave greer alone

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first of all peggy's going to come on

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sooner or later and talk about

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him locking all those people in during

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his conference

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and uh didn't you know something about

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him

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charging admission to an invisible ufo

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for people to go inside of it was it you

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uh i believe that was peggy as well

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i just offered to sell people

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photographs of invisible ufos

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oh yeah that's right yeah well they can

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go to our website which is podcast

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ufo.com look at the donation button

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and uh donate as much as possible

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and we'll make sure to get that to

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michael for your picture of the

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invisible

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ufo in fact they can send me their

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pictures and i'll find

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i'll circle the invisible ufos in them

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and send them back

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you can channel them again sure yeah

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okay sure

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sounds good all right the next ion drive

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or the nasa evolutionary xenon thruster

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has set an endurance record after

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continuously running for over

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48 000 hours or

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five and a half years during this time

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the engine has consumed

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less than 2000 pounds of fuel compared

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to the 22 000 pounds that a conventional

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rocket

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would have needed to create the same

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amount of thrust

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ion drives operate by pushing a stream

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of ions or charged particles

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to create thrust now this allows them to

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use a very low amount of fuel and run

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for a very long time

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but they are extremely slow to

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accelerate

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nonetheless they are becoming a viable

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option for deep space missions

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you know i'm not like an astrophysicist

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or a

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but it would seem

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to me that it would make sense to have

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a dual thruster system first of all to

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get

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up to a high rate of speed and then to

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set this baby into action

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what do you think about that well the

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way ion drives have been working so far

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i mean there's no way you're going to

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leave earth orbit with one right so

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you're you're going to have to either be

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built in space or or

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boosted on some kind of other platform

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but um

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yeah i think you're right but but i

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don't know that they you necessarily

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even need

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two thrusters um you could pull one of

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the uh

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the slingshot maneuvers which everyone

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oh yeah you know

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the kind of thing they talk about in in

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star trek movies

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right to uh to to get yourself going

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and then and then supplement it from

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there with the uh

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with the ion drive which is just

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incredibly consistent

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and um but very slow but

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even a tiny acceleration over over a

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great amount of time when it's

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consistent

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can build to to quite impressive speeds

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so i think this is this is this is a

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real option for the future

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yeah i think it's great it's only ten

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percent or less than ten percent of the

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fuel

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needed yeah and if i i think if anybody

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wants to to learn

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more about the kind of theories behind

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this it's something stanton friedman

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talks about quite a bit that's right

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his lectures yes i heard stanton talk

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about this recently

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and i actually sat down and recorded

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with him he'll be back for the fourth

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time

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and that podcast is coming up on october

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11th

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and that's great because it's always

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good to hear from stan that's right

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he's cool guy texas sightings get media

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attention

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the media in dallas is not only

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reporting on ufo sightings seriously

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they are also picking up mufon reports

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calling the lone star state a hot spot

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in a story first run by the dallas

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morning news

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which we have linked to in our show

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notes and picked up by other media

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outlets

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it was pointed out that mufon has stated

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that three of last year's

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10 strongest cases came from texas

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and that the state is consistently in

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the top five states for reports the

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morning news story also includes

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a recent sighting by johnson county

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correctional facility employees

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it seems to me that the media has taken

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this

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seriously in texas and i'm i'm rather

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impressed by this

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it is it's great um they need a break

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from reporting on cattle

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cattle mutilations or cattle no just

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cattle okay

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there's nothing in texas no

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yeah and i'm i i will do it seriously

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now no yeah it is great that they are

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reporting on it i think they've kind of

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had to

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partially because of all the sightings

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they're having recently but ever since

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the stephensville sighting

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you know and its proximity to the the

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ex-president's ranch it it has

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become a big deal there and kind of an

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unavoidable big deal

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you know i hate correcting you michael i

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really i really do

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so keep that in mind but it's

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stephenville

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because it's big like texas

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okay that works so cornwall

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yes the cornwall ufo research group is

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going to hold its 17th

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annual conference uh that will be on

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october 12th

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and it will be held at truro college

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speakers will cover

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atlantis the supposed 1961

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exeter interstellar treaty and more

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and part of the reason i bring this up

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martin is uh you've been going

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several conferences lately and i was

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wondering how do you select a ufo

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conference

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well region helps you know as far as not

286
00:09:33,110 --> 00:09:31,360
being able to travel

287
00:09:34,389 --> 00:09:33,120
the one i went to in north carolina i

288
00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:34,399
was real excited to go to

289
00:09:37,430 --> 00:09:36,080
because it was more like on the

290
00:09:40,470 --> 00:09:37,440
scientific

291
00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:40,480
tact and i have had a couple of people

292
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,360
uh email me one from the uk actually

293
00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:45,839
that said that he will absolutely not go

294
00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:48,880
to any ufo symposiums conventions or

295
00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:50,080
anything like that anywhere

296
00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:54,080
near him he has to travel far so i think

297
00:09:57,269 --> 00:09:56,160
if i was to give advice if you have the

298
00:09:59,670 --> 00:09:57,279
means and

299
00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:59,680
you pick one out that you really have an

300
00:10:02,069 --> 00:10:00,640
interest in and you're

301
00:10:04,230 --> 00:10:02,079
interested in the speakers that will be

302
00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:04,240
there you know go for it but if

303
00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:05,360
something's happening

304
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:07,760
regionally at least you can connect with

305
00:10:10,550 --> 00:10:09,680
people that have a shared interest and

306
00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:10,560
that's what

307
00:10:13,910 --> 00:10:12,240
i really enjoyed about going to the last

308
00:10:17,269 --> 00:10:13,920
one in particular

309
00:10:20,710 --> 00:10:17,279
is there is there anything you avoid

310
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:22,870
i mean you know there are definitely

311
00:10:27,509 --> 00:10:24,240
topics that i hear

312
00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:27,519
and i immediately just ignore everything

313
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:30,160
that comes after what they say

314
00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:34,720
um so so i you know i think it's fair to

315
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:36,320
perhaps put stephen greer in that

316
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:37,760
category if

317
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:40,240
if if you've made up your mind on him

318
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:42,000
well not to give too much of a spoiler

319
00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:42,800
here but

320
00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:44,320
in the interview coming up with tom

321
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:46,160
carey we talk a bit about

322
00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:49,680
bob lazar and tom basically says that

323
00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:52,000
you know bob lazar would not hold up in

324
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:54,000
a court of law because once you tell one

325
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:54,880
lie

326
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:56,720
you know your credibility is gone and

327
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:58,079
for some reason that kind of makes me

328
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,640
think of

329
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,399
dr stephen greer and every time i pick

330
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,800
on greer we lose listeners so i

331
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:04,880
apologize if i'm offending anyone out

332
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:05,360
there

333
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:07,760
a little bit well we i mean you have you

334
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:09,600
you have to stay true to

335
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:12,880
to uh your own beliefs and theories and

336
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:16,880
and apologize to anybody who are stephen

337
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,320
grier fans out there but

338
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:20,480
uh you know we've seen some things that

339
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:22,959
make us question him and

340
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,720
perhaps we shouldn't pick on him so much

341
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:26,480
but you know there are other topics

342
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:28,000
like for instance i've never heard of

343
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:30,880
the 1961 exeter interstellar treaty have

344
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:31,279
you

345
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:34,240
thinking incident exeter which we

346
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:35,760
actually have someone coming up

347
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:38,000
talking about that topic on our podcast

348
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:39,839
but no we're talking about england

349
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:42,079
is it is it fair to kind of block out

350
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:43,920
certain certain topics

351
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:46,560
prejudge things as soon as you you hear

352
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:46,959
them

353
00:11:50,069 --> 00:11:48,880
yeah well you know yes and you know i

354
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,079
have i have uh

355
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,320
mixed feelings about you know the

356
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,639
abduction phenomena but

357
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,560
but i went to the experience to speak

358
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:58,399
which was all about abductions

359
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:01,440
and there are some that are so seem so

360
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,560
solid

361
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:04,880
that i kind of agree with what travis

362
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,160
walton says why

363
00:12:09,509 --> 00:12:08,240
why should i judge i i don't have enough

364
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:09,519
information to judge

365
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:11,760
so i'm open-minded and and and i went to

366
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:12,560
that and

367
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:16,079
it was absolutely great so i think again

368
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:17,839
if something's happened happening

369
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:19,600
regionally and you haven't gone to that

370
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:21,200
particular conference yet

371
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,040
go check it out why not even if it's

372
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:24,800
something you disagree with you're bound

373
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,440
to

374
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:27,519
hear something that you agree with and

375
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,279
also meet people

376
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,680
that you uh connect with i think that's

377
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:33,279
that's hard to argue with

378
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,639
um for sure any conferences out your way

379
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:38,160
at all michael

380
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:41,200
uh there's the one in the ozarks i heard

381
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:42,480
that's really good

382
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:44,240
i have heard that as well i i have to

383
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:45,519
admit i am not

384
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:48,720
a conference convention

385
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:52,320
gathering kind of person by and large um

386
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:53,920
but it would be great i would like to go

387
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:55,600
to one with you at some point and maybe

388
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:56,240
some fans

389
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:58,800
come hang out with us i i could probably

390
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:00,639
i could probably do that sure

391
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,680
um but but yes

392
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,200
i probably will end up going one now

393
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:07,120
that now that we're doing this so often

394
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,560
here eventually but

395
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:11,120
you know i i'll admit that i i am

396
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,560
prejudiced against certain topics there

397
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:14,240
are certain words i hear and and i'm

398
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:15,120
gonna

399
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:17,360
i'm going to skip right over something

400
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,800
yeah you know

401
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:20,880
i see that a lot of people sometimes

402
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:21,920
just go way

403
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,000
way out there and they try to

404
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,720
go even further and you know people

405
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,600
listen to him

406
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,279
you know sorry if you're listening and

407
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,120
you're one of those people but we'll

408
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:36,240
we'll just buy anything and i just

409
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:37,279
cautioned to

410
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,800
you know approach everything with a

411
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:40,560
little bit of skepticism at least

412
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:43,440
um so you just you know don't lose your

413
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:44,160
your credit

414
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,800
your graduation is that a word

415
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,800
it is not so you don't lose your

416
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,079
credulocity

417
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:54,079
is that is that what it is i'm pretty

418
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,839
sure that's not a word

419
00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:57,760
i'm pretty sure i just made that up but

420
00:14:03,110 --> 00:13:59,920
no i mean yeah i guess

421
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,120
skeptic is not a bad word you know and

422
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:05,040
and we do need to be skeptical

423
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:08,639
because otherwise why not believe

424
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,560
the nice nigerian man who keeps sending

425
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,639
me emails and explaining to me that he

426
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:14,639
has a large sum of money for me

427
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:17,680
oh yes or bases on the moon i'm not

428
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:18,399
gonna go there

429
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:20,800
but anyway michael it's uh it's been fun

430
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:21,680
thank you

431
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:54,389
i'm with tom carey how you doing tom

432
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:55,199
what do you say

433
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:58,240
i'm i'm glad to be with you martin yes

434
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:59,360
now i've had don

435
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,199
schmidt on in the past and we're going

436
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:02,639
to talk about your new book

437
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:05,360
that you did with don schmidt inside the

438
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,040
real area 51.

439
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:09,440
i want to talk quickly about this recent

440
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:11,440
disclosure the government did of

441
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:12,800
actually admitting

442
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,160
there was an area 51. that's a

443
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:19,680
very interesting uh happening martin

444
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:20,480
because

445
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:23,600
uh well the

446
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:28,720
area 51 in nevada near the nellis

447
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:31,759
test range has been

448
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:35,440
in existence in late since 1955.

449
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:39,519
it was created it was established to

450
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:42,320
test spy planes that were under

451
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:43,199
development

452
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:46,240
uh in the mid 50s the most

453
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:49,680
famous one of course being the u2

454
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:54,800
uh then the uh a12 ox cart which was a

455
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,040
which spun off to the sr-71 blackbird

456
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:01,839
high altitude these are high-altitude

457
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:02,800
spy planes

458
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:06,160
that this is before the age of uh

459
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:09,839
satellites and uh they were built to

460
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:12,399
overfly the soviet union the old soviet

461
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:13,199
union and

462
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,519
one of them was shot down in may of 1960

463
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,199
and there was a big international

464
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:21,600
incident over it

465
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:24,720
uh the uh

466
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:27,839
area 51 that we know and love

467
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:31,279
uh became an issue

468
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:34,399
when a fellow by the name of robert

469
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,160
lazar in the late 1980s

470
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,720
came out and said that uh he worked

471
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:42,880
there

472
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:45,759
uh because no one really heard 51 when

473
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,160
these

474
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:49,040
spy planes you know were shut you know

475
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:49,759
no

476
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,519
the ufo connection

477
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,920
the possible ufo connection foreign

478
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:57,279
technology

479
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,639
and foreign life forms the uh the

480
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:03,120
notion that they were being stored

481
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:06,160
possibly at area 51

482
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:11,120
did it become a household name

483
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:14,160
so but the

484
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,559
government our government it was

485
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:18,480
initially established by the cia

486
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:22,559
because they ran the spy plane program

487
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,839
but uh our government of course

488
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,679
said you know we don't uh we don't have

489
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,039
anything there no we we

490
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:31,280
we do not have anything there and yet

491
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:32,240
you could

492
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,360
go to uh rachel nevada go to that little

493
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,120
alien there that they

494
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:39,840
they created in the back of somebody's

495
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:41,360
pickup

496
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:44,559
and uh you could see it you can see it

497
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:45,760
so

498
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:49,039
that goes on for a couple decades

499
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,360
and in the 1990s bill clinton is now

500
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:55,280
president

501
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:58,559
a couple of uh employees that

502
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:01,760
worked at area 51 filed suit against the

503
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:02,799
u.s government

504
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:06,000
claiming that they were exposed

505
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:10,160
to hazardous waste material that the uh

506
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,080
uh you know the facility had had

507
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:17,039
they had they were dumping i guess they

508
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:19,280
called hazmat hazardous waste material

509
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:20,000
right

510
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:22,000
they were disposing of it there and

511
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:23,679
these people were

512
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,640
getting sick and they blamed it on the

513
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:28,720
improper disposal

514
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:32,960
of hazardous waste material well

515
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:36,640
the cases were settled

516
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:40,240
and the air force i'll just say the

517
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,039
government

518
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:43,440
finally admitted that yes there was they

519
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,280
had a facility there

520
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,120
they had and they but they didn't give

521
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:48,799
it they all they admitted yet

522
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:52,000
yes we have a facility there but no name

523
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:52,400
was

524
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,840
spoken about and uh but they at least

525
00:18:58,350 --> 00:18:56,720
admitted that

526
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:58,360
they had something there so that's a

527
00:19:04,150 --> 00:19:00,080
mid-1990s yeah

528
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:04,160
well well here we are in 2013

529
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:07,760
and god knows i don't know why they

530
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:11,039
finally admitted the cia came out

531
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:14,640
you know i guess it was in late july

532
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:18,240
early august and said well yes we do

533
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,000
have we do have a facility

534
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,880
there was a facility it was later taken

535
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:24,480
over by the air force

536
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:27,919
when they created the uh stealth

537
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:31,440
b-2 bomber and the stealth f-117

538
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:34,400
fighter and uh perhaps uh something

539
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,840
called the aurora which is like a

540
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:39,679
mythological high altitude

541
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:42,799
mach 4 aircraft that some people claim

542
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:43,440
is

543
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:45,600
being tested there so they finally

544
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:46,799
admitted yes

545
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:48,880
there is we do have a facility there or

546
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:52,000
we had one and it was called area 51 or

547
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:53,919
at least it was located in

548
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:56,960
area 51 on the map well that was a

549
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,720
couple weeks ago

550
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:01,360
but the thing was in in their release

551
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,960
there was no mention

552
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:05,280
in the official release which

553
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:06,000
constituted

554
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:09,280
over 400 pages there was no mention

555
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:13,520
of ufos or alien

556
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,799
life forms or technology or anything

557
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,559
it was just that they admitted that

558
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:20,000
there was a place

559
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:24,080
a facility named popularly named area

560
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:25,360
51. so

561
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,039
uh the you know so ufo

562
00:20:33,909 --> 00:20:31,760
guys like us and i don't consider myself

563
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:33,919
a ufo guy because the only case i'm

564
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,799
working for the last 22 years has been

565
00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:38,880
roswell

566
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:42,720
uh you wonder well why are they

567
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:45,840
telling us now well the hope is and i

568
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,679
don't subscribe to this oh

569
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:49,520
i wonder what the next revelation is

570
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:51,760
going to be are they finally going to

571
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:55,600
admit that they have ufos and uh alien

572
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:58,480
cadavers stash there that's that's the

573
00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:58,960
big

574
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:01,280
mystery is is if they're preparing us

575
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:02,000
for something

576
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:04,000
or is this the end of something so to

577
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:05,440
sort of uh

578
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:08,159
you know make us go away for a while so

579
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:08,559
uh

580
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,880
that's the question that we have now

581
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:12,559
yeah some people are thinking it's a

582
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,000
baby step huh

583
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:16,400
yes yeah yeah and there's just one more

584
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,679
little step to

585
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:20,159
to admitting that oh yes but by the way

586
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,360
we do have uh

587
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,760
uh we have uh the creatures there you

588
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,520
know they're from various planets in the

589
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:27,600
universe yes we've had them for a while

590
00:21:31,909 --> 00:21:29,440
and yes we uh we've been back

591
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:31,919
engineering their technology for decades

592
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:34,159
that's that's the hope i don't subscribe

593
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:35,919
to it but but that's the hope

594
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:38,720
yes now you brought up the name bob

595
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,440
lazar

596
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:42,000
and that he's kind of a controversial

597
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:43,520
figure you know some

598
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:45,760
people completely discount him a lot of

599
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:46,559
people do

600
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:49,919
uh and some people think that perhaps

601
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,039
his background was skewed a bit

602
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:55,600
so people wouldn't believe him and where

603
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,039
where do you

604
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:00,240
rest on that uh you know martin in a

605
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:03,919
in a court of law if you're caught

606
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:07,200
in a lie you are toast you

607
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:09,280
whatever you whatever else you might say

608
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:10,240
is

609
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:14,320
in an untruth and

610
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:17,360
where he got himself into trouble was

611
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:20,880
with his educational background

612
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,080
he claimed that he had degrees from uh

613
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:26,720
two of our most prestigious universe you

614
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,480
know uh institutions uh

615
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,400
the massachusetts institute of

616
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,480
technology and cambridge mass

617
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:35,280
yeah and the uh california institute of

618
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:37,600
technology better known as caltech

619
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:40,559
a check of the records there people have

620
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:41,440
checked this out

621
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:44,880
you know you can't say anything that it

622
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,000
isn't checked out

623
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:48,480
maybe he thought we wouldn't check out i

624
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,120
mean i didn't do it personally but

625
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:53,440
they have no record of both of those

626
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:54,400
institutions

627
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:57,600
have no record of robert lazar ever

628
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:01,120
attending class there so that

629
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:04,559
sort of uh puts a black mark on

630
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,840
not only his educational background but

631
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:09,039
his whole

632
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:12,960
claim that he worked on alien technology

633
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:16,080
um and uh you know he was

634
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:18,159
he claimed he was an engineer a

635
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:20,720
physicist that god knows what else

636
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:23,760
and so but the thing is uh martin if you

637
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:26,960
actually look at him uh speak

638
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:29,039
in some of these documentaries that he

639
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:30,640
projects very well

640
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:33,760
he does he's intelligent for sure yes

641
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,799
he projects like oh my goodness this guy

642
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,159
is a genius you know

643
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,480
he uh it looks like he's telling the

644
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:43,279
truth but yet he lied about his uh

645
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,799
educational background so i'm i mean i

646
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:48,480
have to discount them until something

647
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:50,240
comes along that will clean up that

648
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,679
educational background

649
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:53,200
sure there's one other there's one other

650
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:55,520
thing that is a sort of the stake in the

651
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:56,080
heart

652
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:57,679
so to speak you know the old bella

653
00:24:01,190 --> 00:24:00,400
lugosi uh vampire you put a stake in his

654
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:01,200
heart

655
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:04,480
um i have a friend in uh

656
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:09,200
florida another uh and uh

657
00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:12,559
ufo researcher named anthony bergalia

658
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:16,159
and uh he had interviewed the bob lazar

659
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,080
some years ago and

660
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:22,559
bragalia's from boston which is just

661
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:25,279
right across the river from cambridge

662
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:29,120
and he interviewed lazar and he says

663
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:31,279
so lazar asked him where he lives he

664
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:32,799
said oh i live in boston

665
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:35,840
and uh so uh anthony said well you know

666
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,919
you you went to cambridge right i mean

667
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:38,400
uh

668
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:41,200
mit oh yes yes i was a yeah yes i went

669
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:42,559
to mit

670
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,710
he said what is that what is the name of

671
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:50,559
the uh landmark

672
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,360
uh right in front of uh fenway park that

673
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,279
every anybody who lived in boston or

674
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,360
cambridge for any period of time would

675
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:59,279
uh would know instantly and he couldn't

676
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:00,960
name it it was

677
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,240
called kenmore square and he

678
00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:06,240
and lazar couldn't he didn't know what

679
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,240
he was talking about so

680
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:10,880
for anthony bergalia who's an excellent

681
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:12,840
researcher that was the stake in the

682
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,080
heart

683
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:16,159
for bob lazar he couldn't uh he couldn't

684
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:17,919
come up with the kenmore square

685
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:20,880
and so yeah that was it for him now i

686
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:21,600
know

687
00:25:24,789 --> 00:25:24,320
i do believe george knapp still believes

688
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:24,799
in him

689
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,840
yeah but yes yes and george knapp is

690
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:28,799
such a balanced

691
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:31,919
and intelligent person absolutely uh

692
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,320
we did a show with george about a month

693
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:35,919
and a half ago

694
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:39,120
and fortunately we did not get into

695
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:42,159
talking about bob lazar george is a

696
00:25:45,909 --> 00:25:42,960
great guy

697
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:45,919
and there was a great interview but uh

698
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:48,480
we disagree about bob lazar and

699
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:51,039
i'm guessing that the the people who

700
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,320
still support

701
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,720
lazar and i don't and i i guess uh

702
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:56,240
george knapp does

703
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,400
i guess their their position is well the

704
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:00,320
government scrubbed their

705
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:03,360
records right and uh

706
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:05,200
of course there's no way of knowing that

707
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,360
but if you're in a court of law

708
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,360
martin you know what you know what would

709
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,120
happen to bob lazar

710
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:14,000
well said all right moving on can you

711
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:14,720
give a

712
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:17,760
synopsis of your book the

713
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:21,760
book inside the real area 51

714
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:24,880
is really not about area 51 itself

715
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:27,520
it's about wright patterson air force

716
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:28,080
base

717
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:32,400
in dayton ohio and the reason

718
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:35,760
the reason our we we wanted to do this

719
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:37,279
book

720
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:40,320
was because and our publisher came up

721
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:43,120
with the title we had a different title

722
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:44,640
but our publisher came up with the

723
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:46,960
connection to area 51 because everybody

724
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,159
recognizes what that is you know right

725
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:52,080
and it would alert uh you know the

726
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:53,360
casual

727
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,679
uh bookstore browser that oh this is

728
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:57,919
about area 51 or ufos or something you

729
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:05,029
but all of your roswell books including

730
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:05,360
the

731
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:10,559
second

732
00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:15,520
the roswell books leave off

733
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:19,279
when the wreckage and the bodies are

734
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:20,000
delivered to

735
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:23,840
wright patterson in in 1947. that's

736
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:24,559
where all the

737
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:26,399
yep the bodies went the right patterson

738
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:27,840
the wreckage went to the right

739
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:31,039
right patterson end of story well what

740
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,720
happened after that

741
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:35,440
you know so we wanted to put there have

742
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:36,960
been books that maybe had a chapter

743
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:39,200
about wright patterson or a paragraph or

744
00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:40,000
two

745
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:42,799
our entire book is about wright

746
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:45,120
patterson air force base and its secret

747
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:48,240
history and how it came about

748
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:51,279
and uh it discusses

749
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,919
the roswell wreckage and the life forms

750
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,600
that were brought there what happened to

751
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:57,360
them where they were stored

752
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,520
it answers a lot of the questions that

753
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:01,039
the people have

754
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:04,159
that haven't been answered before and we

755
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:04,960
wanted to

756
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:08,559
do this in in a single book

757
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,760
and uh there's a lot of new information

758
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:14,320
not only about the base itself but about

759
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:17,840
jay allen heineck and project blue book

760
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:21,440
and uh because you know don schmidt was

761
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:22,480
a

762
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:54,559
uh our two roswell books witness to

763
00:28:57,909 --> 00:28:55,279
roswell

764
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,919
well that's great yeah it does seem like

765
00:29:02,710 --> 00:28:59,520
a place that always

766
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:02,720
does come up and what kind of things did

767
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:04,720
you uncover

768
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,760
well the first one let me ask you

769
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:09,840
uh you've you've heard of wright

770
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:10,799
patterson right

771
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:13,360
oh yeah what what's the first question

772
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:14,320
you have about it

773
00:29:17,909 --> 00:29:17,279
oh well it's the place where the roswell

774
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:17,919
crash

775
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:20,399
was supposed to be brought to i mean the

776
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,360
wreckage

777
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,919
uh what specific location there uh

778
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:25,200
hangar 18

779
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:29,279
bingo that's the first question

780
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:32,240
everybody has is this is there where's

781
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:33,520
hanger 18

782
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,360
is that where the aliens are stored well

783
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:37,919
we answer that question in our book

784
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,960
it was you know because because when we

785
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,480
started the book i i didn't have an

786
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,399
answer for that i i knew that the term

787
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:46,799
was out there hangar 18

788
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:50,320
i i know that the information

789
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:52,840
desk at wright patterson if you go up to

790
00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:55,919
it and ask the person there

791
00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:58,159
where's hanger 18 they'll say what are

792
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,000
you talking about there there is no

793
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:02,320
hangar 18 and there never was a hangar

794
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,039
18

795
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:05,520
here and they will be right they will be

796
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:06,399
correct

797
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:08,480
and so what happens is you walk away

798
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:10,399
scratching your head thinking oh my god

799
00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:11,919
how stupid am i

800
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:15,039
i feel like a fool and but uh

801
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,549
technically there was no hangar 18 but

802
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,760
they know you're asking about the aliens

803
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,919
that that's what they know they're at

804
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,679
you're asking about that

805
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:31,200
and they won't give you they won't give

806
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:32,799
you an answer

807
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,720
so they send you away with there's no

808
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:36,000
hangar 18 it never

809
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:40,159
was well what happened was it was a

810
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:44,240
it it goes back to the early 70s

811
00:30:47,669 --> 00:30:46,799
when a fella by the name of robert

812
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:47,679
spencer

813
00:30:51,909 --> 00:30:51,120
carr he built himself as professor but

814
00:31:02,710 --> 00:30:51,919
he

815
00:31:06,389 --> 00:31:02,720
now you know that a lot of military

816
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:06,399
people in in the past have uh

817
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:09,760
retired to florida you know

818
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:13,360
so what happened was uh he he would

819
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:17,039
uh give lectures about ufos

820
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:18,240
he would you know he had a little

821
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:20,080
lecture circuit down there in florida

822
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:20,640
about

823
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:23,279
ufos and what happens and i know this

824
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,320
for a fact what

825
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:27,039
if you give a give a lecture people come

826
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,720
up to you afterwards and say well you

827
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:30,080
know

828
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:35,039
about this blah blah blah blah blah

829
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,039
and so what happened to him was he had a

830
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:39,360
number of people who used to be

831
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:40,880
stationed

832
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:43,840
or worked at wright patterson air force

833
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:44,640
base

834
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,440
tell him well you know uh that's where

835
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,279
the aliens were stored

836
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,000
blah blah blah blah and so what what he

837
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:53,760
did

838
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:56,799
is he assumed now this is a

839
00:32:01,110 --> 00:32:00,240
this is like 1972 73-74 this is long

840
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,120
before

841
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,840
anybody ever heard of roswell because

842
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:05,200
the roswell

843
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:08,480
incident

844
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:11,360
well he had never heard of roswell but

845
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:12,000
these

846
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:13,679
people who were talking to him said well

847
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:15,440
you know there was a crash

848
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:18,880
in uh new mexico and that's where the

849
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:20,399
bodies were taken that's where the

850
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:23,840
the uh wreckage was taken blah blah blah

851
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:25,840
uh it was there's a hangar there it's

852
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:28,480
actually hangar 23.

853
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:32,399
where they were taken and but ultimately

854
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,720
they transferred that stuff to building

855
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:36,159
18.

856
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:39,679
building building 18 well

857
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:42,799
when robert spencer carr

858
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:45,120
went public with this story somehow that

859
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:47,440
the hangar and the building morphed into

860
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:50,559
hangar 18. ah uh-huh so

861
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:54,320
it was an amalga an amalgam of hangar 23

862
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:55,919
and building 18

863
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,960
came out hangar 18 and it's still with

864
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,240
us today i mean i

865
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,960
i still referred to it as irit myself

866
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:03,760
today

867
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:06,320
but it's it's uh was building 18.

868
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:07,279
there's a

869
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:10,480
building 18 building 18 a b c d and e

870
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:11,039
and f

871
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,559
so there's a building 18 complex there

872
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:17,279
that included cold storage uh

873
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:18,320
examination

874
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:23,600
labs uh you name it and hangar 23

875
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:27,120
was uh the place where during world war

876
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:31,120
ii the uh german and japanese aircraft

877
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:32,399
were brought

878
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:35,279
and in the cold war the russian migs

879
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:36,320
were brought

880
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,240
to back engineer them you know to tear

881
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:40,480
them apart to see what made them go

882
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:44,480
and try to to uh uh uh build aircraft

883
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,000
that would defeat them

884
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,080
and that was done in hangar 23 so when

885
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:51,120
the the roswell crash occurred

886
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,120
boy what more uh foreign aircraft or

887
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,519
foreign machine could you have than

888
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:59,440
something from another planet

889
00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:01,760
so that's where the roswell wreckage was

890
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:02,960
taken

891
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:08,480
building 18

892
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,159
and ultimately they spent some time in

893
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:17,909
hospital to be dissected and what have

894
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:18,560
you

895
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:21,280
but the uh the main storage areas for

896
00:34:25,109 --> 00:34:21,679
these

897
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,119
items uh was uh

898
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:27,839
hangar 20 uh hangar 23 and the building

899
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:28,720
18

900
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:32,639
complex so that's where it was but when

901
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:35,280
uh robert spencer carr talked about it

902
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,119
he talked about a hangar 18

903
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,679
and the other thing he was doing was he

904
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:41,280
was resurrecting

905
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:42,560
i don't know if you remember well you're

906
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,159
too young to remember but you might have

907
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:46,639
heard about the frank scully

908
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:49,760
in 1950 wrote a book about uh

909
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:53,520
the so-called aztec new mexico yes

910
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,639
yep and it was it was called uh behind

911
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:58,400
the flying saucers it was a

912
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:01,599
it was a top-selling book and it was the

913
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:02,640
first

914
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,200
uh flying saucer book about a crash 1950

915
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:09,440
uh the crash allegedly took place in

916
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:11,599
march of 1948

917
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:14,480
but that book was roundly criticized

918
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:17,040
when it was learned that scully's two

919
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:20,720
sources were two oil con men

920
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:23,200
right i remember that yeah i remember

921
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,800
reading about that actually we have a

922
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:26,240
blog on our

923
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:29,359
website about that whole situation yes

924
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:32,560
and uh the the uh the case

925
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:35,359
has been reopened by a fellow by the

926
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:36,800
name of scott ramsey

927
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:39,359
uh two years ago and he's got a book out

928
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:41,839
on uh he reopened

929
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:45,040
the case and uh so that's to give a

930
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:46,480
little plug for scott

931
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:49,680
but uh back uh back when robert spencer

932
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:50,560
carr

933
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,400
was talking about this he was talking

934
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:53,920
about this the uh

935
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,560
the uh aztec case and the bodies

936
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,160
allegedly going to

937
00:36:01,750 --> 00:36:00,480
wright-patterson and uh unfortunately

938
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:01,760
for him

939
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:05,280
uh they uh they

940
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:08,720
analyzed his data and uh they debunked

941
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:09,040
his

942
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:12,560
for the second time

943
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:16,000
really and uh yes and um uh they

944
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:17,920
debunked robert spencer carr

945
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:21,040
along with the case so uh that

946
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:24,400
that was that but then the term got out

947
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:27,680
uh uh hangar 18 was out there

948
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:31,280
and they made a movie in 1980 right

949
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:34,880
same years the um the roswell incident

950
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:37,359
book came out called hangar 18 starring

951
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:38,960
the man from uncle

952
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:43,280
robert vaughn and uh darren mcgavin the

953
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:46,640
fellow that uh was in that christmas

954
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:47,200
movie

955
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,119
and those were the two stars of hangar

956
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:51,440
18. i actually like that movie

957
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:54,560
now does kecksburg ever come up as

958
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:57,920
being transported there yeah um

959
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:00,400
the bell or whatever i think uh yeah i

960
00:37:04,829 --> 00:37:02,480
think stan gordon

961
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:04,839
he's the lead investigator on the on the

962
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,400
1965

963
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:08,880
kecksburg pennsylvania crash alleged

964
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:09,839
crash

965
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:13,040
that the material was taken to wright

966
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:14,320
patterson

967
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:16,320
and there there's another story of the

968
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:17,920
fort dix case i don't know if you've

969
00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:20,480
ever talked about the fort dix case

970
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:23,760
in 1917 there was a

971
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:27,680
uh in fort dix new jersey right next to

972
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:30,720
uh maguire air force base it's a joint

973
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:32,079
base

974
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:35,680
and uh there was a report of ufos over

975
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:37,359
the base

976
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:40,800
and uh radar you know the radar had them

977
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:42,720
coming down somewhere near the base

978
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:46,880
and uh lo and behold there an alien

979
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:49,359
turns up walking or you know trying to

980
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:50,160
get

981
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:54,560
mcguire

982
00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:57,920
and uh i heard about this yes yes

983
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:02,160
and uh it's shot by one of the sentries

984
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:06,160
and uh it's lying there on the tarmac

985
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:10,320
or you know the you know the concrete

986
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,800
and the story is that a plane flew in

987
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:14,640
from wright patterson

988
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:18,160
and uh they uh packed it away and it was

989
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:18,960
flown

990
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:22,400
to back to wright patterson

991
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:26,880
and uh there's unfortunately this is a

992
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,520
uh the main witness only one witness who

993
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:31,119
has ever talked about this and

994
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:32,000
unfortunately he

995
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:36,400
was last i heard he was in uh indonesia

996
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:39,200
and yeah you know how can you get to him

997
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:39,680
so

998
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,440
case

999
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,599
with george filer but it didn't go

1000
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:47,520
anywhere i couldn't get anywhere on it

1001
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,000
so i

1002
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:49,920
i basically gave up because we couldn't

1003
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,520
get beyond that one

1004
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,000
witness who was away and i don't know if

1005
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,640
you call it malaysia or indonesia

1006
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,960
you know you know borneo sumatra wanted

1007
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:00,640
that area

1008
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:03,839
and uh i never did get to interview the

1009
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:05,200
fella but that's still

1010
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:09,920
a case on the books and the the cadaver

1011
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:13,520
was taken to wright-patterson

1012
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:16,560
now how does your military background

1013
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:19,839
help you in your investigation it helps

1014
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:20,560
me in that

1015
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:24,640
i understand the military mindset

1016
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:27,040
you know i had a top secret clearance

1017
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,720
for what i did

1018
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,960
but in four years in the air force you

1019
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:32,640
get to know

1020
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,800
how the military operates and what the

1021
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:36,800
mentality and the mindset

1022
00:39:40,829 --> 00:39:40,160
is that that has been a big help to me

1023
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:40,839
in

1024
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,359
military

1025
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:48,000
because i i know exactly how they feel

1026
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:49,280
about things

1027
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:51,680
and what they're talking about and

1028
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:54,480
unless you've been in the military

1029
00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:55,920
you know for a couple years i'm not

1030
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:58,160
talking about getting in for six months

1031
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,880
and out

1032
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:00,720
i mean having it to actually spend a

1033
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:03,200
couple years in there it uh

1034
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,960
it's a sobering experience and uh

1035
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:09,359
uh i you know not that i recommend it to

1036
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:11,599
her but it was good for me

1037
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:14,720
and uh so that's how it's helped me uh

1038
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:17,760
martin is uh i i understand

1039
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,880
uh when i interview military people uh

1040
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:23,119
we're on the same wavelength i see

1041
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:24,160
that's that's great

1042
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:26,720
just going off topic just a little bit i

1043
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,599
want to talk

1044
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,240
briefly about roswell but i also want to

1045
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:31,440
talk about roswell

1046
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:34,880
in the skeptics and debunkers

1047
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,760
uh facing off against them it's one of

1048
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:39,599
the cases i always bring up when i'm

1049
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,400
actually

1050
00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:42,560
doing some type of debate in regards to

1051
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,520
ufos

1052
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:46,000
is the number one thing i always say is

1053
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:47,280
why on earth

1054
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,200
would the army air force actually

1055
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:51,200
publish in a newspaper

1056
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:54,240
and uh send a press release saying that

1057
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:54,880
they caught

1058
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,599
they captured a flying disc it just and

1059
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:59,040
just for them to answer that alone

1060
00:41:03,349 --> 00:40:59,760
there's no

1061
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,359
no real answer for that we uh we've

1062
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:05,520
gone around and around and around and

1063
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:08,240
around on this question

1064
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:10,240
we're always asked that question in fact

1065
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,280
don and i

1066
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:13,440
disagreed on it for the longest time i

1067
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:14,640
thought it was a local

1068
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:18,560
faux pas by the local base

1069
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:20,800
commander there at roswell i thought he

1070
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:22,640
had just made a mistake

1071
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:26,800
but it turns out because of the

1072
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:30,400
how uh walter house sealed statement

1073
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,599
that it was all

1074
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:34,000
orchestrated from washington the reason

1075
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:35,520
they had to put out

1076
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:37,280
because why would you if you want to

1077
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,960
cover something up why would you call

1078
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:40,960
attention to it without with a

1079
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:44,079
you know that was that was my point well

1080
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,400
the reason they had put out the first

1081
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:50,720
uh press release the that they had

1082
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:51,920
captured a flying

1083
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:55,119
saucer was because the story was

1084
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:58,480
already out amongst the citizens in

1085
00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,760
roswell

1086
00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:02,480
going all the way up to corona and it

1087
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:03,440
was already

1088
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:07,040
in the press because the rancher

1089
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:10,079
mack brazil when they came to town the

1090
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:10,800
first

1091
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,160
person he spoke to was the sheriff

1092
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:17,440
in roswell uh george wilcox

1093
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:20,800
and the sheriff connected him with uh

1094
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,960
uh well while he was talking to the

1095
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:23,920
sheriff the

1096
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,760
radio station kgfl and roswell

1097
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:29,760
called the sheriff's office just looking

1098
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,800
for

1099
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,960
you know uh local stories that they

1100
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:34,720
might put on the over the radio

1101
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:37,920
that was good timing yes yes he he have

1102
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:38,400
the

1103
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:45,119
and uh you know he was spinning records

1104
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:46,960
and talking about local stories

1105
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:49,119
you know and how the cost of cattle feed

1106
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:50,560
and that sort of stuff

1107
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:53,440
and he called as a regular course he

1108
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:54,480
would call the sheriff

1109
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:56,319
does any you know anything going on

1110
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:58,720
there and actually they did have a good

1111
00:43:02,230 --> 00:42:59,839
story

1112
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,240
uh the country singer lefty frazelle was

1113
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:04,480
in jail there at the time

1114
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:08,000
uh but uh so

1115
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,880
he connected uh frank joyce with mack

1116
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:12,880
brazil the rancher who brought all this

1117
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:15,599
stuff into town so the story

1118
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:19,359
was out if it wasn't out they wouldn't

1119
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:21,280
have had to put out a press release so

1120
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,720
they decided

1121
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:24,400
we got to do something here because this

1122
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,200
story's in already in the press

1123
00:43:31,270 --> 00:43:29,280
so we got to make everybody feel stupid

1124
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:31,280
about this so they put out the story

1125
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,480
they set up a straw man that they had

1126
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,319
captured a flying saucer

1127
00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:38,160
and they were they were right about that

1128
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:39,760
all they didn't capture it they

1129
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:41,280
recovered it but

1130
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:44,560
uh so that story went out well within

1131
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,640
hours within hours they changed it

1132
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:51,200
to the weather balloon story general

1133
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,240
roger raymie

1134
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:55,280
in fort worth who uh

1135
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:58,400
the eighth air force was the next unit

1136
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:01,280
up from the 509th bomb group in roswell

1137
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:04,880
uh he had held a press conference uh

1138
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:07,440
saying that the fellas over in roswell

1139
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:08,400
made a mistake

1140
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:11,599
folks it wasn't a flying saucer

1141
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:15,680
an interplanetary ship that they found

1142
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:18,720
it was a weather balloon now i don't

1143
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:21,119
know about you

1144
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:24,160
but uh i don't want people who

1145
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:27,520
can't tell the difference between a ufo

1146
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:30,960
or an interplanetary spaceship and a

1147
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:31,760
radar

1148
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,079
target a

1149
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,800
rubber weather balloon i don't want them

1150
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:40,640
to be the group that has their finger on

1151
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,160
the atomic trigger

1152
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:44,560
exactly because they were the they were

1153
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,240
the only group in the world

1154
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:48,640
that had the atomic bomb and that was

1155
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:50,000
their sole purpose

1156
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:53,839
of existence was to in time of war

1157
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:57,280
to drop the atomic bomb on the other

1158
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:00,000
you know most probably the soviet union

1159
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,839
i don't want them with their finger on

1160
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:03,280
the trigger if they can't tell the

1161
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,000
difference

1162
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,880
between a rubber weather balloon and uh

1163
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:09,040
something from another planet but

1164
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:10,880
that's what they did they put that story

1165
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:12,640
out and then they it they

1166
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:15,040
took it away with the weather balloon

1167
00:45:18,790 --> 00:45:15,920
story

1168
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:18,800
and everybody went home feeling stupid

1169
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:20,960
and the press dropped the story right

1170
00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:21,440
there

1171
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,280
that was their main thing was to kill it

1172
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:25,839
in the press which they did

1173
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:28,640
but the other thing was uh and you could

1174
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:30,640
and you could control it in the military

1175
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:31,599
because you

1176
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,000
they they uh you would say well oh you

1177
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:36,000
want to talk about that uh

1178
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:37,200
you want to talk about that flying

1179
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:38,800
saucer how would you like to read about

1180
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:41,119
it in leavenworth

1181
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,119
that's what that's what they did they uh

1182
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:45,119
threatened the people with leavenworth

1183
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:47,119
if they talked continued to talk about

1184
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:48,160
it on the base

1185
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:52,319
yeah but the but the the wild card

1186
00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:55,839
was the civilians because unless it's a

1187
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,200
case of martial law

1188
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:59,760
being imposed you they had no control

1189
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,319
over the

1190
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:02,400
citizens of roswell and the outlying

1191
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:03,359
ranchers

1192
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:06,720
so what they did is they enlisted the

1193
00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:07,680
sheriff

1194
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:11,119
to deliver death threats in roswell

1195
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:13,760
to the people who knew who had actually

1196
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:14,960
seen the wreckage

1197
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:17,920
and especially those who had seen the

1198
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:18,800
bodies

1199
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,960
wilcox delivered

1200
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:24,960
the death threat we're gonna not only

1201
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:27,440
kill you we're gonna kill your children

1202
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:30,400
if you ever talk about this now to me

1203
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:32,640
that's a violation of your civil rights

1204
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:33,599
you know

1205
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,920
and but that's what they did and just to

1206
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:37,440
make sure

1207
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:39,680
a couple weeks later they brought in

1208
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:40,640
this guy

1209
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:44,319
from wright-patterson named hunter penn

1210
00:46:50,069 --> 00:46:47,359
to uh to reinforce that

1211
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:50,079
threat and this guy was a it was a nut

1212
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:51,440
job

1213
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:54,480
it was like in time of war break

1214
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:57,920
break the glass only in time of war and

1215
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:00,800
unleash hunter pen on somebody so he

1216
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:02,960
traveled around to the local ranchers

1217
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,000
with the death threat again uh

1218
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:09,040
if if the ranchers ever talked and if

1219
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:11,200
the uh civilians ever talk so that's how

1220
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:12,160
they did it

1221
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,560
is they set up a straw man only because

1222
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:15,920
the story

1223
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:19,440
was out if it wasn't for that they

1224
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:20,160
wouldn't have

1225
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:24,000
of uh

1226
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:26,319
newspaper stories about it and and if

1227
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:27,920
you and the thing was

1228
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,480
martin the newspaper accounts never

1229
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:31,760
mentioned

1230
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:35,359
uh aliens or flying saucers or

1231
00:47:39,510 --> 00:47:38,160
or anything extraterrestrial they they

1232
00:47:42,549 --> 00:47:39,520
referred to the

1233
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:42,559
flying saucer as an instrument now to me

1234
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:44,319
that sounds like a little gadget you

1235
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:45,119
know

1236
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:47,200
like like a little gadget they never

1237
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:49,119
referred to anything

1238
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,319
uh that was uh off planet so

1239
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,440
uh so that's how they dealt with it and

1240
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:57,599
it worked for 30 years

1241
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,280
you know i never heard that side of it

1242
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:01,440
that's that's really fascinating to me

1243
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:04,079
one more roswell question is last time i

1244
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,280
had don schmidt

1245
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:08,160
on was quite a while ago and he was

1246
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:09,359
chasing

1247
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:13,280
some supposed evidence at the time

1248
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:16,400
and he was real busy did anything

1249
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:19,520
uh come out of that we're still chasing

1250
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:22,400
really the same we're still as we speak

1251
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:23,760
we're still chasing

1252
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:27,280
to use don's term wow i i am uh

1253
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:29,280
that's all i can tell you it'll be

1254
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:30,800
interesting to see what happens through

1255
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:31,520
that

1256
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:34,400
it will be yeah all right getting back

1257
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:35,040
to

1258
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,839
wright patterson are there people that

1259
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:38,880
are

1260
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:43,119
actually talking about things that

1261
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:46,960
they've seen there well uh

1262
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:49,599
you have to understand that uh if you're

1263
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:52,800
20 years old in 1947

1264
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:55,680
you're very old today so there aren't

1265
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,480
many

1266
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,319
left that are what we would call

1267
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:00,880
firsthand witnesses to anything

1268
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:04,960
very few left and so we get most of our

1269
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,160
stories

1270
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:08,960
that originate in 1947 from family

1271
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:09,760
members

1272
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:13,280
but we do get stories of

1273
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:15,599
people who worked at wright patterson

1274
00:49:19,589 --> 00:49:16,400
and uh

1275
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:19,599
we have several of uh from family

1276
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:20,559
members of

1277
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:24,480
people who actually helped uh

1278
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:28,240
construct the underground hangars that

1279
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:30,480
go down as far as 10 levels

1280
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:33,119
really under under the ground uh under

1281
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:34,319
building 18

1282
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:39,520
were connected underground

1283
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,040
so you came back back and forth and

1284
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,280
today and if you go on the base even

1285
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,040
today

1286
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:50,480
you're struck by the number of air vents

1287
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:51,359
that uh

1288
00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:54,480
come out of the ground and you're

1289
00:49:57,829 --> 00:49:56,000
it's only you can only draw one

1290
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:57,839
conclusion that

1291
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:00,480
there's a lot of uh wright-patterson air

1292
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,800
force base that's underground

1293
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:04,400
it's like there's another city

1294
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:06,000
underground

1295
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:09,359
now full of vaults and

1296
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:12,720
you know tunnels and hangers and they go

1297
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:13,440
down

1298
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:16,960
several levels now today

1299
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:21,119
i know for a fact that uh hangar 23

1300
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:24,480
is uh has been cemented over like if you

1301
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:25,200
go in that

1302
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:27,440
you can't you can't like oh well this

1303
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:28,880
there's nothing under granny well they

1304
00:50:32,870 --> 00:50:29,440
put a

1305
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:32,880
fresh coat of cement on the floor so

1306
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,440
to cover up all the entrances to the

1307
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:37,119
underground levels

1308
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:41,280
uh so um we don't believe that the

1309
00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:43,280
the wreckage and the and the bodies are

1310
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,559
there anymore

1311
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:46,800
we believe that they left were taken

1312
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:48,240
elsewhere

1313
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:52,720
perhaps the area 51 in the early 80s

1314
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:55,280
but uh all that stuff has been covered

1315
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:56,800
over

1316
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:58,000
are you saying that it's completely

1317
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:00,480
sealed

1318
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,920
well hangar 23 and building 18 are

1319
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,520
and all those underground levels are

1320
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:07,839
sealed off yes

1321
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:10,720
wow but that's not for the entire base

1322
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:11,520
that's for

1323
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:14,720
the building 18 complex and hangar 23

1324
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:16,720
and perhaps other other buildings as

1325
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:17,839
well but

1326
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,720
uh it's as though they said okay fellas

1327
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:22,400
it's getting too it's

1328
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:24,160
getting too hot here we got to move this

1329
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:26,000
stuff elsewhere and they

1330
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,240
you know and they uh it's like when

1331
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:30,240
you're on the dusty trail and you want

1332
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:32,160
to cover your tracks you take

1333
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:34,640
something to sweep your tracks you know

1334
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:35,280
and

1335
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:38,160
we think that's what they did okay so

1336
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:40,160
now i want to talk to you get your

1337
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:43,680
your take on chase brandon because uh

1338
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:46,720
i've had someone else on the show that

1339
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,880
thought he was i mean i thought right

1340
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:50,400
away it was really silly that someone

1341
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:51,440
would find a box

1342
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:54,559
marked roswell and

1343
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,000
according to grant cameron that was just

1344
00:52:01,430 --> 00:52:00,319
his way of saying it without spilling

1345
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,440
the beans or

1346
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:03,040
a little bit of truth a little bit of

1347
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,599
lie mixed in together to actually

1348
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:07,200
say something you wanted to say but

1349
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:09,040
what's your take on on that whole

1350
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:10,640
situation

1351
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:14,319
uh my uh my take on that uh martin is

1352
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,280
that uh

1353
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:17,599
chase brandon or brandon chase i don't

1354
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:18,480
know

1355
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:21,280
which which is the first word he was

1356
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,480
selling a book

1357
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:24,559
he had a book that was coming out and he

1358
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,480
was spicing it up a bit

1359
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:29,359
with this uh i believe it was a tall

1360
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:31,280
tale

1361
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:34,400
we've never heard of a roswell uh folder

1362
00:52:39,589 --> 00:52:34,640
in

1363
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:39,599
do i got here oh this is about roswell

1364
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:41,599
and uh there's no way there's no way to

1365
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,119
corroborate that

1366
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,119
his story might be true but there's

1367
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,280
there's no way to corroborate that

1368
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:49,280
and the fact that he had a book coming

1369
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:50,640
out at the same time

1370
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,079
to me tells me he was just giving

1371
00:52:58,790 --> 00:52:56,960
giving you a little teaser he was

1372
00:53:00,309 --> 00:52:58,800
throwing out a teaser like oh my

1373
00:53:01,510 --> 00:53:00,319
goodness maybe there's more in the book

1374
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:01,520
about that

1375
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:04,240
and uh so we we just wrote that story

1376
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:04,880
off

1377
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:07,280
but there was another fella after chase

1378
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:08,160
brandon

1379
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:11,760
with a similar scenario he had a book

1380
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:16,079
and uh he spice he threw a teaser out

1381
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:18,400
that involved roswell

1382
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:21,359
and all of all it is it lets you know

1383
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:22,559
that roswell

1384
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:25,520
is still you know people are still

1385
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:26,720
interested in it

1386
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,000
a lot of people think oh well there

1387
00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:30,160
can't be any more to learn well there

1388
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:33,839
there is and uh you know somebody like a

1389
00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:37,520
chase brandon or this other fellow

1390
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:39,440
might have new information people are

1391
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:40,960
interested in it

1392
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:43,680
well speaking of a teaser we're just

1393
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:45,200
about out of time here but

1394
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:46,960
is there another little teaser you can

1395
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:48,319
throw away for

1396
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:50,400
someone that might be interested in in

1397
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:51,760
buying your book

1398
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:55,520
yes yes uh we have a chapter

1399
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:58,000
in the book called the jawbone that

1400
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:00,000
spoke martian

1401
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:03,760
it's about a strange jawbone

1402
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:07,680
that originated

1403
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:11,920
at wright patterson that came into

1404
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,800
our knowledge and it's a very

1405
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:16,720
interesting story about this

1406
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:19,760
jawbone that it's been exact i have a

1407
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:21,760
background in the physical anthropology

1408
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:23,200
myself

1409
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:25,599
and i at first thought it was a uh

1410
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:26,559
prosciutto

1411
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:28,400
uh like a lemur you know the ring-tailed

1412
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:30,319
lemurs that you see at the zoo

1413
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:31,920
right i thought it might be something

1414
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:34,319
like that but uh having seen it

1415
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:37,520
uh in real time at least

1416
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:40,400
the plaster cast of it it's too large

1417
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:41,119
for

1418
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:47,119
and other physical anthropologists that

1419
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:48,480
have looked at it

1420
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:51,599
have stated that it's no known

1421
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:54,079
primate they know of no primate or

1422
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:55,200
earthly animal

1423
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,640
with that that jawbone so

1424
00:55:02,230 --> 00:55:00,880
we have a chapter on the jawbone that

1425
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,240
spoke martian

1426
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:05,040
and uh you might find that interesting

1427
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:05,680
great

1428
00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:08,480
so why don't you throw out your website

1429
00:55:16,510 --> 00:55:12,880
our website is www.roswell investigator

1430
00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:18,230
www.roswellinvestigator.com

1431
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:21,200
and our book uh inside the real area 51

1432
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:22,880
the secret history of wright patterson

1433
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:23,680
can be

1434
00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:26,079
uh purchased at your friendly barnes and

1435
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:27,040
noble

1436
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:30,160
store if if they're still friendly and

1437
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:34,000
uh also on amazon you can get it in the

1438
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:34,799
hardback

1439
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:37,920
i mean in a regular paperback uh you can

1440
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:40,079
get it on kindle you can get it on ebook

1441
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:41,680
you can get it on

1442
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:44,160
whatever electronic version you want

1443
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:45,040
they have it

1444
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,480
all right well thank you so much tom

1445
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,480
it's been a real pleasure it no the

1446
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:50,079
pleasure was mine

1447
00:55:55,150 --> 00:55:51,920
thank you for listening to our show and

1448
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,160
please remember to check out our website

1449
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:57,520
podcastufo.com for the latest blogs and

1450
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:58,799
forums

1451
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:01,040
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1452
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:03,040
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1453
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:05,119
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1454
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:06,960
button where you can help us out

1455
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:09,040
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1456
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:10,640
of coffee a month

1457
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:12,640
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1458
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,200
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